There was a report in the Rockwall Success from May 28, 1886, that went something like this: man plowing field discovers giant human skull.

The following week the same paper published another article claiming that a search party assembled, excavated the area, and revealed an “underground palace.” They claimed to have found a battle axe with a 12-foot-long handle and a pair of large sandals. A week later a third article appeared showing the team pushing further into the underground palace. The author of the articles, “Sam Slick,” wrote like a cross between Mark Twain and Edgar Allan Poe. It had a hint of believability, but his dramatic tone suggested parody.

Not long after the paper ran those articles, the Rockwall Success was sold, rebranded, and there were no more follow-ups about the skull or the giant’s lair. Some say it was a prank. Others say the skull was abducted by the Smithsonian—to suppress any evidence that giants once walked the earth. It’s also been reported that the portion of the entrance to the underground palace was filled-in due to structural hazards.

Well, eighty-eight years after the giant skull was supposedly plucked out of the ground, Alex Jones was born in Dallas, and he’d grow up in Rockwall, a suburb just outside the city. I’m not saying the two events are related—but the shades of truth, myth, skepticism, parody, and transparency seem relevant. (Rockwall also happens to be where Lee Harvey Oswald’s widow settled when she remarried.)

Regardless, there is something strange beneath this town. What appears to be an ancient rock wall does run below ground. The original part of this underground wall was discovered in 1852 by accident. Even the official timeline of the wall and all who’ve studied it show a back and forth of explanations that range from it being a natural formation to the theory that it was built by ancient man. Some believe it’s a series of sand dykes that just so happens to resemble manmade symmetry. Others claim giants built it—more specifically, the Nephilim—an ambiguous Hebrew word variously interpreted to mean giants or fallen angels. Others believe the rock wall is evidence of an ancient city built by early man and that the wall was a defense against “cannibalistic giants.” And there are those who say the rock wall is an ancient landing pad for UFOs.

I thought for sure Alex Jones would have an answer.

When I asked him what he thought of the wall, he said, “I don’t think anyone knows what it is. It’s a mystery.”

As scientists and historians and professors continue to debate the nature of the rock wall, I would like it to be known that we can’t yet say conclusively that Alex Jones was not raised on top of a lost city with a graveyard of ancient giants.

Alex did tell me that his first encounter with corruption and hypocrisy within the authorities took place in Rockwall.

It happened in high school. He’d gone to a party and saw an off-duty cop delivering ecstasy to kids. Sometime later, he’d see the same cop at his school doing an anti-drug event.

“I thought that was bullshit,” Alex told me.

When he was 16, the Rockwall police pulled him over. They found a six pack of beer in the car. When they said they were going to give him a drug test, he told the cops they were corrupt.

His father was a dentist, and the family seemed to have put roots down in the town, but they decided to leave for Austin.

“There was too much trouble in Rockwall,” Alex said—referencing his young rebellion against the local authorities.

In what seems like an early landmark in Alex’s pattern of questioning that which seems off-limits and being proven right, the sheriff of Rockwall County was eventually arrested for corruption.

I’ve come to the rock wall in Rockwall, TX as Alex does an “emergency broadcast” from Steven Crowder’s studio about half an hour away. Alex’s voice boomed through my phone speaker as I toured the wall, the baseball field, the lake, and the old windmill outside of the Rockwall Historic Society.

Alex was talking about a pair of “witches” who were caught on video eating a dead deer in the woods.

I wondered if the video is even real—my gut instinct thinks everything is a prank—but I’ve also had my fair share of interactions with people who claim to be witches who’ve done blood rituals on battlefields and performed hexes in attempt to harm people.

Alex might be known for exploring the darkest aspects of humanity on his show, Info Wars, but today’s emergency broadcast was particularly grim. There’s despair in his voice when he told callers where he thinks the safest places in the USA will be should society fully collapse, when he said America is under Nazi rule, that tyrants are in control. He predicted someone is going to attempt to assassinate President Trump. It’s part warning, part eulogy.

Despite today’s bleak message, he is capable of humor—especially self-deprecation. The first time I met Alex Jones was in June 2021. We were all standing outside at Tim Pool’s studio when a hummingbird floated down from the sky and hovered over Alex’s head. He made eye contact with the bird and without hesitation said, “It’s a drone!”

I’ve also seen him delve into his unabashed love of music. It was around August 30, 2019, when Alex couldn’t stop talking about how much he loved the new Lana Del Ray album, Norman Fucking Rockwell. I think he admired the way Del Ray made something vintage, beautiful, romantic, oddly patriotic, absurd, and rebellious.

Meanwhile, in Rockwall, Texas, there’s a beautiful blue sky, and Alex’s voice cut through like a storm cloud shouting, “I’m gonna go down with the ship.”

For those who might not spend every day excavating the news or tuning into Info Wars, Alex Jones might seem to be talking about a nightmarish planet that must be one man’s paranoid delusion. But, by the time I landed in Austin yesterday, these were the breaking stories across the corporate media outlets: A UFO whistleblower said the U.S. government had non-human spacecrafts; the “world’s spy chiefs” were meeting in Singapore to discuss the “international shadow agenda;” Ireland is planning to slaughter 200,000 cows for climate change; an extinct species has been discovered that seems to have buried their dead 100,000 years before any known homo sapien burials, and New York was cloaked in a reddish fog from nearly 500 Canadian forest fires.

Back in my hotel room, there’s a copy of USA Today. I take apart the paper and spread it across the bed. 

Most people are used to the old school newspapers or the way we scroll through a story on a website. There is quite a gap between the way formal, corporate-looking news is presented versus with the way Alex presents the news. Alex can say something that sounds outlandish like, “Barack Obama was raised by a transgender nanny in Indonesia”— and you might flinch at the absurdity of that statement—until you look it up. He knows he sounds unhinged to some people, which is why you’ll notice him constantly telling people to look something up, research it themselves, or say something is “well-documented” after saying something that seems unreal.

Looking at USA Today while listening to Alex Jones is like experiencing alternate realities simultaneously.

The way we all argue over reality is a lot like the rock wall below this town. We can agree that something weird is just below the surface. We can stare at the wall, or a skull, or an article, and walk away with completely different interpretations. Some will say it’s real. Some will say it’s fake. Others will ignore it. Others will let the mystery be.


In the morning, I met Alex back in Austin at the Info Wars studio. We sat across from each other at a conference table where he’d typically sign books.

There’s a Darth Vader helmet propped on top of a vintage Zenith stereo in the corner of the room. Vader’s wearing an Indian headdress, and Alex’s name is written in beads across the headband. A fan made it. And Alex found the stereo one day on the side of the road. He thought the headdress and the old stereo complimented each other.

“It’s a piece of artwork I put together,” he said—as the Vader mask stared  at us.

A giant book was on the table between us—Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment by Paul Ehrlich, Anne Ehrlich, and John Holdren

“Why is it important for people to know about Paul Ehrlich?” I asked. (Alex had mentioned him briefly on a show we did together recently.)

“Ehrlich and Holdren were Obama’s science czars [and] developed the plan to put fluoride in the water to lower fertility, lower IQ, remove iodine, and just, you know, basically weaponized society and culture to flatten the curve of human population and then phase out most humans in general… They promote using fluoride in water to control populations in this book… They didn’t develop the original plan that started in 1947. This is from the 1970s.” (Holdren has denied promoting depopulation agendas.)

By the original plan, Alex means how the U.S. government decided to dose public water with fluoride. Their reason for doing so was to save the American people money and prevent cavities.

(Elon Musk happened to tweet out that he despises Paul Ehrlich as I was preparing to publish this story.)

“Did you and your dad ever talk about fluoride?” I asked, considering his dad’s a dentist.

“He kind of halfway believed it because he thought it was sodium fluoride and believed [in the] system until, I guess 25 years ago. He’s didn’t realize that it was a toxic waste—not just hydrofluorosilicic acid.”

Alex said he believes that the chemicals really got bad in our water after the atomic weapons program. He said he thinks the authorities “looked at all the stuff in the water and called it a nutrient.”

I asked him to expand on what he was saying yesterday—about the United States of America being under Nazi control.

“When I call it Nazism, the Nazis were just an offshoot of the eugenicists. That was Francis Galton in the 1850s. And the Wedgewoods and the Huxleys and that whole group of families were the scientific elite in England. And they were getting government grants and funding through the different commissions and the Royal societies to develop systems of control. They were commissioned to develop machines to track and control humans, which they basically coined the term biometrics. They developed these ideas and, you know, by the 1890s, they had theories about discovering the matter of the universe and created what they described as atomic weapons and also got into discovering the secrets of what makes up humans and the whole search for DNA. Yeah, so you really have to hand it to these people, they’ve got massive funding.”

“I’m also thinking that Nazis in the World War II sense literally took over because I think of something like Operation Paperclip,” I said.

“All these Nazis were brought in by Allen Dulles and the CIA. That’s all well documented, on record. But in Nuremberg, the Nazis cited the kinds of elements that you’re gonna get some inspiration for the Cold Spring Harbor eugenics facility in New York, which was Rockefeller funded… The Nazis are just the National Socialist Workers Party. But that’s just a brand of the system we think of, and then the Nazis were a spin off. Because they went after certain groups, but the eugenicists want to go after the general civilization, period.”

“Is this where someone like [Paul] Ehrlich comes in?” I asked.

“Yeah, they treat them like rockstars at the congressional hearings whenever Paul Ehrlich or John P. Holdren or any of those guys go there. And of course, you can pull up Ehrlich early in the 70s, Ehrlich saying something like: ‘We’re gonna make men look bad on TV as father figures, we’re gonna break the family up, and we’re gonna start incentivizing not having children, the children that are there will control the state…’  They just want to play God and to do that they got to dumb us down. And it’s a natural inclination of the industrial wealthy society become decadent. So, it’s made their job really easy, but the truth is, they’ve become very decadent as well. Who puts them in the position even if you go along with their really twisted ideas of playing God? Prince Charles says there’s too many of us. Prince Philip says he wants to come back as a virus. It’s ridiculous.”

(The full Prince Philip quote is: “In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving overpopulation.”)

“Speaking of population control,” I said. “I was at the [Georgia] Guidestones right before they blew up. Afterward, I ended up talking to the guy who collected the debris. He loves the Guidestones. He’s got a museum down there dedicated to granite. Anyway, I asked him about the theory that the Guidestones were connected to the idea overpopulation. He got a little offended. But later in the conversation he tells me that his favorite book is Daniel Quinn’s, Ishmael.”

“Oh, wow,” Alex said. “I’m a Gorilla!” (A reference to an early appearance Alex made on Timcast IRL where they happened to be talking about Ishmael.)

I reminded him that CERN was switched on that same week the Guidestones exploded. Shinzo Abe was also assassinated that week.

“But back to the people playing God, what do you think their goal is with all of this?” I asked.

“They’re in a race for immortality. They’ve consciously said, ‘We don’t care how dangerous all this technology is. We don’t care how disruptive it gets. We want to control the future… That’s why you see someone like Ray Kurzweil or Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mr. ‘Screw Your Freedom,’ say, ‘We want to live forever.’ Will Shatner thinks he’s gonna live forever. I’m not saying William Shatner is part of this group, but when he went up to space on Blue Origin, the Bezos space company, he said, ‘When I was up there, we just talked about the cataclysm that happened on Earth, and I’m sad everybody has to die.’ It’s just the ultimate club. They’ll say, ‘We’re the Guardians, it has to be done.’ It’s very sad. Once the singularity comes, they will be obsolete… It’s a death cult,” Alex said.

(The full Shatner quote is: “It took me hours to understand what it was, why I was weeping. I realized I was in grief. I was grieving for the destruction of the Earth.”)

“This is why the Neuralink is potentially upsetting?” I asked.

“I understand,” Alex said. “If you’ve been in an automobile accident, or motorcycle accident. Look, my uncle has one of those nerve stimulators, and they update it with some chip in his brain. And, you know, he can live a decent life. But when they try to push it ubiquitously to be in the military, or like an upgrade advertisement, clearly, that’s where it’s going. It’s just totally dystopian.”

“Obviously, I want people to regain their vision or their ability to walk like, that’s a beautiful thing,” I said. “But what happens after that, you know, it goes into another realm—a future where I’m gonna have to fight with my kids about them wanting to be immortal to upload their consciousness onto a computer.”

“That’s the con game. They want you to accept that a person can’t die. ‘This is their consciousness,’ they’ll say. The AI’s been watching them for years. It knows their voice, their mannerisms, everything about them. They can fool their family members, and then they’ll say, ‘Oh, you’re denying their identity.’ We will hear about corporations living forever and being people. Well, now they’re gonna say that the AI will merge with humans to become sentient and conscious, and who are you to say they’re not. And now they’ve got rights, just like the animal rights movement… And The Guardian had an article which said the worst thing is organic farming. And the worst thing is organic sheep and cows and we just have to ban organic farming and it’s got to be bugs in warehouses. It’s all about just collapsing society, extinction rebellion on the bottom, the big mega banks on the top, who again, have all the money to control and are destroying economies to consolidate power then loan us back money to rebuild… but rebuild it for their technocratic prison.”

“What do you make of all these train wrecks with hazardous materials? Or the mass deaths of livestock?” I asked.

“I think a lot of it is coordinated. Some of it is coincidence, but there is a general ‘Eff the world, don’t take care of things, be lazy. Stay home, watch Netflix’ attitude. And then there’s also saboteurs. During the 2020 election, they caught dozens of Antifa setting fires in California and other areas, and they would just shut it down. It would come out once and people would try to talk about it on Facebook or Twitter. They shut it down. Today you see it in Canada, same day, coast to coast fires. They want people in crisis mode while they destroy civilization.”

“Are these the people you refer to as psychic vampires? The Trudeaus and the [Klaus] Schawbs, the Ehrlichs?”

“They’re functionaries—high level minions of the system. They might claim they have a system of balance. They claim they have to control the criminal groups so they don’t get out of control. But at the end of the day, these higher ups really are working for a dark evil force. And they really do just enjoy sorrow and pain and destruction, because if society really came together, we would build amazing things, and allow a real free market and open competition. Not all this leftist victim mentality garbage that’s meant to make people subservient and weak, then humanity would already be way, way past where we are right now. And they know that. Freedom and open societies threaten their monopoly on power. Everything’s an inversion of what they say.”

“Are the psychic vampires a literal thing? Do you view this as an entity that possesses people? Or do you mean it metaphorically?”

“I think you can argue there are people that get off on sorrow and pain. It’s like that movie, There Will be Blood. It’s based on the famous novel, Oil!, and, you know, the oil baron says, “I have a competition in me, I don’t like to see other people do well.” He likes to see other people do bad. Well, I don’t have that competition. I see somebody with a beautiful wife and a nice house and great kids, I feel like that’s my shared wealth. I’m not a collectivist. But it means humanity’s great. But there’s a sick form of competition that these globalists have where they know they’re inbred and crazy and done a lot of bad things and they hate a happy family with a nice dad and nice mom and three kids and a pool, going to college and doing well, being healthy. If they can poison them with some fluorides or GMOs and make you sick and see the longevity lowering and then see all this rise [in] autism, it gives them a feeling of control. This is in the Egyptian tablets, saying, ‘I want every firstborn of the Jews killed and they would do that to other slave groups they had because ‘There’s too many of these people.’ Every culture would actually do that from time to time. The Mayan culture did it. The Druids it. Especially when there wasn’t enough resources or there was a bad crop. The witch doctor would say, ‘Well, you know, we need so many of the children’. Sometimes they burned them up inside wicker baskets. Other times they slit their throats and threw them into a peat bog. They find these mass graves all over the world.”

“It’s an evil human pattern,” I said. “I think a problem you face is that you’re calling out stuff that to most quote-unquote normal people seems insane, but what I see happening is that society has redefined barbarism to seem sterile and modern. So that we might still act barbaric, but we talk about it in a way that’s socially acceptable. In terms of the high rates of abortion or the campaigns to chemically castrate children.”

“They try to dumb everybody down, suppress us all to make us weaker. And they target our strongest—they get the boys on Prozac and Ritalin, instead of promoting a hypercompetitive culture, where we don’t run over people that are weak, but we’re going to compete, our kids will compete, everybody competes. And we’re not going to have a big social safety net that makes you weak, it’s just there, so you don’t die. And then that empowers everybody, and everybody gets stronger. So our weakest are stronger, and our stronger are just incredible. And that’s the society we have to have, not a society where we make everybody dumbed down and then just kill off all the dumb people. No, we have to do it through actual competition. And that means space exploration, dangerous jobs, and undersea stuff and honoring people that go risk their lives. Now look, I’m overweight and used to be in great shape. I know I need to eat better, workout more. When I’m saying all this, it doesn’t mean I’m coming from some position that I live all this. I mean, I spoiled my kids, they’re great kids. They’re not on drugs. But they’re Gen Z. My son is 21, I have one daughter that’s 19, and one that’s 15. And a six-year-old daughter with my second wife. They’re smart and they’re beautiful. They’re amazing.”

He told me that he sees his children’s age group being robbed of drive and competition. He said his older children don’t seem to care as much about the competition aspect of life the way he did when he was their age.

“I feel guilty of that, because, you know, I’d just make their breakfast and help make their beds and I won’t make them do this stuff. And because I was made to do all that stuff, it really is true that I had a much bigger drive. And so now, you know with my six-year-old, I’m making her cook her food all the time. She’s into it. And, you know, now she wants a YouTube channel, and she wants to do her own reports with her toys and stuff. And she’s directing these videos in a really good way. When I was 18, I wanted the top radio show. I had a drive more than most people,” he said while knocking the table with his fist.

“I have a six-year-old as well, and I have a two-year-old,” I said. “And I’m always curious, because you and I think about a lot of the same things in regards to politics and the horrors of the world. How much do you even tell your kids? Are they aware of what you talk about and the dark stuff of this world?”

“When my son was six, he would read the picture Bible, cover to cover, every day, and then by the time he was ten, he was reading the Encyclopedia Britannica. So, he didn’t need to be told about it, he knows all of it. With my oldest daughter, she’s more like, ‘Ya, Dad, I know, this is all going on, but I just choose to have a life.’ You can call it a defense mechanism. A way to shield herself from it all.”

He thinks it’s easier for a lot of people to look away from the darkness. An he gets it. I don’t think he particularly finds pleasure in being the black sheep Memento Mori—holding the skull of a nation up for all to see and basically saying: “Remember you must die.”

He told me he believes modern prosperity has, in many ways, backfired on humanity, and it’s killing the middle class: “Civilizations are hard to build and hard to maintain. And having its life support turned off. The globalists think they’re going to be exempt from all of this, that they’re somehow going to survive with their breakaway civilization and be safe from what they set up.”

“That’s why I feel like the biggest trick they’ve played on us is convincing people to self-sacrifice. Look how people are applying to the Canadian government for assisted suicides,” I said.

“They train you to love your servitude. Many of the Aztec people wanted to be sacrificed. So, they would go play a ball game, and in many cases the losers got sacrificed.”

I told him how the world always appears to be ending. How my great-grandparents lived through their hell, as did my grandparents. Now we seem to have our own unique hell—especially with the last few years of absolute medical tyranny across the world.

“It’s going to get a lot darker,” he said. “I think it’s the beginning of the greatest mass mental illness we’ve ever seen instituted by people with PhDs and medical degrees in psychiatry.”

“You think this has been planned out for some time?” I asked.

“I remember being led in 25 years ago to [University of Texas] by a big insider. I was really anti-George Bush then. And this guy was a big liberal. I would take hallucinogens there occasionally. So, I was taking acid with these UT psychology department people. And one day they said, ‘We can give you a real tour of what’s going on here. There was almost no teaching going on in these giant departments. Whole floors that no one’s allowed in—just the professors and their staff.”

He told me he thinks they let him in because they knew he was so anti-war. That they might’ve gotten a thrill from showing their LSD friend these experiments.  He believes it was all DARPA funded. When they led him around the facility, he saw women being observed while masturbating to porn. A camera would scan their eyes as they pleasured themselves.

He said there was another area that replicated a big box store where they had hidden cameras scanning the eyes of people as they looked at products.

“It was already super advanced back then,” he said. “And this was really secret. They had a monkey farm and an ape farm. It was like a horror movie. All these apes and monkeys sitting there with wires in their heads, and television screens with different flashing rates. And of course, they were just getting the harmonic rates down to mesmerize them, and to put them into these specific states.”

He was told not to worry about the monkeys because they’d get euthanized after a few weeks.

“If they’re doing that stuff to learn how to control us 25 years ago, imagine what they’re doing today,” he said. “This was just brute force testing.”

It seemed to pain him to pull these memories from the file cabinet in his brain.

I also wondered if Alex might’ve somehow stumbled onto an MK Ultra-type program and the “tour” they gave him was their way of “creating” someone like Alex: take some acid, show him horrors, and see what happens. If that is the case, then in my view, it seems to have backfired. But I’m including this in my own Alex Jones origin story–up there with the idea of him getting raised on top of a graveyard of ancient giants.

“What do you think it is that put you in all these places? Rockwall, Bohemian Grove, the lab with the human test subjects?” I asked.

“I think it’s God,” he said. “I always liken it to the old movie from the 80s with James Woods. He’s one of my favorite actors. He’s in that movie Cat’s Eye. There’s this cat that keeps seeing everything.  At a certain point, I was like, ‘Why is all this happening to me? Does this happen to everybody? I don’t think it does… I’ve definitely seen some weird stuff,” he said.

Alex checked his watch and asked what time I had to catch my flight home. I told him 3:00 p.m. He asked if I’d consider continuing the interview on air on Info Wars. I obliged. He rushed out the door and I could hear him conducting the show. 

He had 45 minutes until airtime.


There’s a YouTube plaque hanging in the hallway outside the Info Wars studio that’s riddled with bullet holes. Alex had taken it to the range after getting banned from the platform.

“It’s a masterpiece now,” he had said after obliterating it. “Transformed by the art of the second amendment.”


A digital clock with big red numbers counted down until Alex and I went live. There’s a large digital screen behind us. It’s comprised of hundreds of different images from Greta Thurnberg to Anthony Fauci to the Clintons to The Simpsons.

One image is of Alex from the movie Waking Life. I saw that movie for the first time in high school—it was my introduction to his brand of doomscroll poetry.

The desk in front of him is covered in articles that he’s printed out. It’s a collage of doom, death, power, and violence.

The clock ticked down, and Alex started the show by saying he heard I was in town to write a story about him and thought why not bring me on to do the interview, then gave me the floor.

Since it happened to be Ye’s [Kanye West] birthday, we discussed what happened when Ye was on Info Wars at the end of last year. (I was with Ye right after his appearance on Info Wars.)

Alex said he had no idea Ye was going to do any of that—from the net, to the Yoohoo, to the “I looooooove…”

Alex seemed genuinely dismayed from that episode. His show was basically hijacked by Ye in a black mask. I don’t think Alex appreciated the spectacle. For a man who has received so much negativity in the press, he probably didn’t like all the new unwarranted arrows coming his way thanks to Ye.

“If I was here that day, when [Ye] was saying that the Nazis did good things, I would have said, ‘Well, the American government thought the same thing,’ because we brought them over after [Operation] Paperclip,” I said.

“That would have been a great comeback for the [Anti-Defamation League], like, ‘Hey, are you mad I didn’t hire them?’” Alex said.

“I’m curious what you’re thinking of 2024. Is the country going to survive another election?” I asked.

“Their plan is to not survive. Collapse it and reorganize it. Trump was like 10 points ahead of DeSantis and then as soon as they indicted him in New York, he was 30 points ahead. Now they’re getting ready to federally indict him… they’re insane. Do they not understand the Streisand Effect?”

“How are you with Trump these days?” I asked.

“I’m not a pragmatist. I’m a realist. I don’t make my decisions from a pragmatic perspective. I’m very ideological and really believe in what I want… I like Trump on a lot of levels. I just don’t want to be chumped at the same time… He’s still running around saying the vaccines are good. He came out said, ‘Oh, we’re gonna investigate if they cause autism.’ Well, I mean, okay, you put a BandAid on a gunshot wound…”

Alex rattled off a list of some of the things he did like about Trump’s presidency from getting rid of Roe v. Wade, to securing the border, to standing up to China, to energy independence.

“I mean, [Trump] was pulling us out of the UN, peace deals, [talks with] North Korea,” Alex said. “So many good things. But you can have the greatest dinner, and then the waiter climbs up on the table and takes a dump. It ruins the meal. It ruins the whole time, trying to ignore all the crap that Trump’s spilled on the table, and kind of bite around it…”

And then he compared Gavin Newsom to “a giant pool of dead babies and rotting flesh” and mocked those who ignore the policies Newsom implemented during COVID lockdowns by saying “Well, I better just eat around this.”

“[Trump’s] pardons were tough,” I said. “As much as I like Lil Wayne, we should have had Julian Assange.”

“Very insulting about Julian Assange,” Alex said.

“What do you think about RFK Jr?”

“I think he’s totally for real. I think he’s wrong on some issues. But now he’s pro gun. He wants to control the border. He says carbon taxes are a scam. The system hates him, it’s trying to ignore him. And they’re in panic mode over him… he’s a reformer in the Democratic Party. Let’s be clear. [RFK Jr.] is night and day compared to Joe Biden. He’s the real environmentalist out there. He got toxic waste dumps cleaned up 40 years ago… He gets it.”

Alex brought up the fact that Elon Musk railed against the globalists a few months ago.

“Why are all these people suddenly sounding like Alex Jones?” Alex asked. (At the time of this writing, this clip comparing RFK Jr. to Alex Jones was making the rounds on twitter.)

We got on the topic of abortion, and I told Alex about a trend on TikTok where there’s a bunch of young women talking about how they’re haunted by the babies they aborted.

“I was haunted,” he said. “I really believed it was a blob of tissue… My dad, one time I was 18, found the abortion bill. And just very coldly said, ‘You’re not my son. You quit killing my grandchildren, and I want you to get out of here by Saturday’… And he said, ‘I’m so ashamed of you.’ And you know, and the weird thing was that, oh, the next six months I was having nightmares, haunted about it. And then that’s when I had that kind of wake up, come-to-Jesus moment…”

He continued: “No matter how modern we look, in this world, with our suits, and our nice cars, and all these buildings, we are still just as barbaric as we’ve always been… It reminds me of what went on during the Cultural Revolution in China, where they basically erase the history, destroy the kids, and you get to rebuild the future… a dark, disgusting, depraved future.”

We took a few minutes for a break and when we came back we talked about the state of colleges in America. Alex brought up the CIA plan to make modern art appear “flat” as a way to stick it to the Soviets.

I said that society needs God to build a strong foundation to rebel against the widespread meaninglessness, against the increasingly flattened society.

“I know [God’s] real. I’ve seen it,” Alex said. “There’s a God that made this… It’s an energetic connection. You’re not reaching out to your imagination; you’re reaching out to something else outside of you… Only twisted energy will try to overpower your free will…”

I asked Alex why he believes that Elon should not unban him on Twitter.

“They put so much evil energy onto me like I’m the devil… They’ve taken 59% of the revenue away… He’s basically unbanned almost everybody else, but if he unbanned me, I’m kind of like the token black sheep that we sacrificed. I don’t agree with it. But I know why he’s doing it. I’m gonna leave it at that… I don’t want to get Elon in more trouble. But since he took over, have you looked at Twitter? I mean, Alex Jones is not banned on Twitter.”

He’s referencing how there are tons of videos of himself circulating Twitter with millions upon millions of views. He might personally not be allowed on the platform, but his voice is certainly front and center.

“I really want [Elon] to succeed… Right now, he’s going in the right direction… And I’m not that good at tweeting anyway,” he said.

I asked him what he thought of the recent news about the UFO whistleblower claiming our government was in possession of a non-human spacecraft.

“This is part of a larger psyop… to advance technology, and to create a false alien invasion scenario. [The government’s] got race wars, they’ve got power outages from hackers. They’ve got a lot of kill switches to get us to accept martial law, but they’re warming the alien one up, and taking it out of the refrigerator, and setting it on the counter…”

He also questioned if this new UFO whistleblower had been shown a fake space craft and some rubber aliens to trick him into thinking this story is true.

“Remember when Annie Jacobson was on Rogan, like four or five years ago?” I asked. “She said she had a source for the book that she wrote many years ago who claimed to have worked at Area 51. Who said he saw surgically altered humans in a craft to look like aliens just to freak out the Soviets.”

“This is all a giant psyop,” he said. “Moon landings freak out the Soviets, we got aliens to freak out the Soviets. Meanwhile, there was a real space program and a whole bunch of dead Air Force astronauts. We did go to the moon. And then for the public, they just had a staged event. But the guys they sent had already been there.”

I asked if he believed in the moon landing.

“I know the guys that ran the operation…” he said.

“Why do you think we haven’t gone back?” I asked.

Alex said he was told that the U.S. government had a whole secret space program. A duplicate program that ran behind the scenes to conceal the supposed number of deaths that took place on the moon. He said the U.S. had a real program and it had such advanced technology that they couldn’t let the general public see it. So, he believes that the U.S. decided to run a fake operation to show the world. He believes we went to the moon, but what everyone saw on television was, according to him, a reenactment.

“It was all fake,” he said right as we went into a commercial break for pure iodine.

“The moon is a graveyard,” he said. “I know it’s crazy, but I swear. I’ve also heard UFOs would chase our spaceships.”

I asked him about interdimensional aliens. I’ve heard him discuss them in the past. He said it’s harder to believe that the extraterrestrials are flying here from light years away in little tin saucers. It makes more sense, he said, that they’ve learned how to fold space-time. He picks up a page from one of the articles, folds it in half, and uses a pen to puncture through it, to show me how he believes the interdimensional beings travel here.

We were back on the air.

Alex said, “Folks, we went to the moon. In the late 1970s, the government could shoot a cruise missile down your chimney. So, believe me, they’ve got artillery that goes 50 miles now and can hit a dartboard bullseye… By the late 70s they had dozens of robot drones in orbit with both nuclear weapons and a meteor gun weapons…”

“I think humanity is on the edge of some major revolution of how we think of ourselves,” I said, thinking about the concept of ancient human history, as well as the fractured present, and the distant future. As the constant flux of information floods the internet, the concept of human nature has become amorphous.

“There’s a lot going on that we don’t know,” Alex said. Then he told me that his grandfather worked for oil companies after World War 2. In fact, he worked near Roswell, New Mexico. Alex still had family out that way some fifteen years ago. He remembers coming back from a Christmas trip, and they had all stopped at a Denny’s in Roswell. His grandma pointed out a local petroleum building that his grandfather used to work at. And then she told Alex that she was in town the day of the infamous “UFO” crash. She told him that she saw a big truck with tarp and all these Army men with their guns.

“Well, if you look at a map where that thing crashed,” Alex said. “Why would they bring it through Main Street in the middle of the day with the press? It was all a psyop. My grandmother was there. They’re like, ‘Here’s a flying saucer. The aliens are here!'”

He believes that if this was truly some secret operation, they wouldn’t have had a sort of parade through small town America. “It was just a joke,” he said. “We have to constantly balance the psyop of these things. But also, we understand that these beings do exist whether interdimensional or not…”

“That’s the thing, my skepticism overflows so much, I don’t even know how you find what’s real anymore,” I said. “How do you balance your skepticism? We know how much the corporate media has lied to us and our bureaucratic class, how do you walk that line of knowing what to trust anymore?” I asked.

“I study history. Every ancient culture said creatures came here and landed here and all that stuff. We see history repeating itself, what’s real, what’s fake… If you want to be ignorant, you don’t want to know, but it’s fine to speculate on everything. But what I do know is there are thousands of key big stories that the general public’s not aware of, but I talk about them every day. I think skepticism is key… And they’re doing all this to make us think the aliens are violent…”

He said if they were violent, they would’ve blown us up already.

In between segments, I asked how he kept his balance in a destabilized world.

“Oh, it’s way beyond that,” he said. When he put his hands to his face, preparing to go live once again, he looked like Edvard Munch’s painting, The Scream. 

When you’re with him, it’s easy to forget that he’s become one of the most hated and censored men on the planet.

I’ve talked to a lot of people on the Internet who think he is a monster. But whenever I’ve been in public with him, it seems like everyone loves Alex Jones. He gets hugged by all different types of people. They ask for selfies with him. They want things signed. They thank him.

If most of your life is spent consuming certain types of media, you might think everyone hates Alex Jones. I have also been in rooms with certain people who I regard as brilliant, but who also think Alex is a wicked man, who had to excuse themselves from the room because they couldn’t be near him. Perception is a hell of a drug.

The problem is that our reality is so manufactured that we must retain the ability to ask the most simple and ridiculous and uncomfortable questions. (It’s worth remembering how the Joint Chiefs of Staff went to JFK with the idea of staging false flags to murder our own citizens to blame it on Cuba and start a war. Our government has destabilized countries. It has secretly infected men with syphilis. It took away your job if you didn’t comply with its medical tyranny. And go look up how many feds were involved in the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer.) So, when you know that our “leaders” salivate over violent and depraved schemes, we should mostly be concerned about the people who want to stop anyone from questioning everything, anytime, no matter what, whether you like it or not.

Alex asked me what I thought about the Wall Street Journal story about pedophile networks operating on Instagram.

“It’s disgusting. It makes me sick,” I said. “I also worry about what’s next. The second the corporate press starts to say the things that the conspiracy theorists have been saying for a long time, I wonder what new gruesome thing are they hiding now?”

“It’s a sign of them losing,” Alex said, defiantly. The corporate press having to admit that these evil things are happening are, at the very least, a small win. It shows people that this dark world exists—sometimes they just have to hear it from the places they’ve been conditioned to trust.

Alex’s hope sounded like an act of rebellion against an otherwise dismal scenario.

“For every action there’s an opposite and equal reaction,” he said. “At least in this realm. As bad as evil gets, it only makes good rise that much more.”

But as I write this, the mountains, and the rivers, and the city skylines are cloaked again in a strange and irritating haze. Some say it’s poison. Others say it’s the inevitable outcome of 500 wildfires. Some people are being told to stay inside. It makes entire valleys seem claustrophobic and chemical. Whatever it is, we can all recognize that something new is lowering out of the sky.

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