Bonus Episode: Tim And Seamus Debate Abortion, but Both SLAM The pro Abortion Leftists

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237 COMMENTS

  1. omegahunter9 says:

    There are a few groups regarding abortion:
    Pro life absolutists – no abortions under any circumstances
    Pro life – no abortions except in extreme circumstances
    Libertarian choice – leave the gov out of abortions, and let people do what they want
    Pro choice – women have limited rights to abort their children before birth (to certain time limited thresholds) for any reason
    Pro abortion – women have the right to abort their child up to (and potentially after) birth for any reason
    Pro death – women should abort their child for the good of society and to offend people they dislike

  2. Northern says:

    lol Tim being an idiot

  3. Jaffanouk says:

    Lydia’s story is the same as what happened with a friend of mine. Her doctor said, based on her ultrasound, that her baby was going to suffer birth defects so recommended an abortion. She chose to keep the baby, and now her little girl is excelling in school and is just beautiful. And no, she had no birth defects.

  4. debpaoluccio@gmail.com says:

    In medical terms there as are spontaneous abortions ( a miscarriage)
    So when a woman has a miscarriage in the medical record it will say 1 abortion.
    If a woman had an abortion on request the medical record will say , 1 abortion
    Tim you don’t have the correct definition of abortion. The term means simply that the baby has aborted ( left the womb by whatever means)

    This is the first time listening & I’m shocked by your potty mouth! Shame on you! You’re better than this! For someone who has a large vocabulary it’s a sign of being too lazy to find better choices of words! I’m Just a little older & wiser! I would think you would realize people are watching & listening for truths that are sensored in other platforms,
    Cursing especially the F…,,words are still offensive to some of us! Tone it down ! My opinion of you just dropped! Respectfully you are close to my grandchildren’s age & I would tell them the same! Find better words to express yourself, it doesn’t show your true intelligence!

  5. Jedidiah says:

    Unrelated to the cast castle but during this episode I got high as fuck accidentally huffing naval grade paint in an enclosed space while listening to the up and down of the episode recorded. I also usually listen to the podcast version at work since I have no streaming signal many days for YouTube.

    I was able to follow well but I kept feeling like I was being fucked with by the crew, I feel like Ian would have been extremely interested in what I experienced so I hope this finds it’s way to him.

  6. TheKingOfBears says:

    There is a term for when the baby is already dead, a miscarriage. It’s not an abortion by definition or by action.

  7. DeathBySexy says:

    Tim really shouldn’t consider his position to be pro-choice. As the name implies, they think it is inherently a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion simply because they don’t want a baby. The medical edge case scenario is not the mother’s choice exactly. It isn’t a pro-life stance that people cannot undergo necessary medical procedures that pose risk to life. Pro-life = don’t let people CHOOSE to kill their children.
    Stuff like that hurts the pro-life cause more than Seamus’s position that killing babies should be illegal. A medical procedure with risk to life =/= an abortion. Abortion is “I don’t want this baby, I will kill it.” Him conflating these medical edge cases with actual abortion isn’t helpful. Pro life movement is not about forcing mothers to die in freak medical scenarios, it’s about not killing babies. In those situations everything should be done to save both lives, if it cannot be done then it cannot be done.
    Tim just accept the fact that you are actually pro life. The stance you explained is not pro choice. It’s pro=don’t create laws that can potentially limit someone’s choices in dire medical situations. What you’ve explained as your stance is more pro life than most pro life people. Calling yourself pro choice hurt the cause. And the cause is l: don’t let people kill their babies cause they don’t want them.

  8. ScottG says:

    Uhhh Tim…. you’re Pro-Life dude. Pro-Choice is when the mother decides if she wants to have an abortion, for any reason. Most pro-lifers agree that there may be situations where it is appropriate to save the mother (its pretty rare). If you don’t think abortion should be used as a contraceptive or incases of rape…. then you’re prolife dude.

  9. Jude says:

    Abortion is murder of the blameless and most innocent of all creatures on, in or above the earth. The only person who should die as a result of a rape is the rapist. Same with incest. Death sentence. full stop. IF that were the case, rape would be rare, incest would be rarer still. Both are outliers in terms of frequency as it is. Abortion has turned in to a treatment for bad judgement, carelessness, selfishness, lack of discipline and responsibility. The time to make the choice is BEFORE sex takes place. Nobody is confused about how babies are made, if you risk it, you also get the consequences. Seamus is right about not having to kill a baby to take care of the mother. If the baby dies during treatment of any kind, that is different than destroying the child deliberately. Intent matters. You are shouting over Seamus Tim.

  10. UppityG says:

    Pool is good at the never resolvable moral thought experiment. There is no Kobayashi Maru, Pool. Just tough choices in the mo…..

  11. ZedS says:

    Ugh, Tim’s love of the squishy middle is showing on this one. He’s making excuses to justify the position that it’s supposedly better to kill an unborn child for a hypothetical risk to the mother’s life rather than take an ethical approach to the issue. If the mother is experiencing a medical emergency and the doctors have to do life-saving procedures to her that put the child at risk, then they simply need to induce labor or perform a C-section to remove the child and then they do what they can to keep the child alive. If the child dies, then so be it.

    This is why even though most democrats say things like “there should be restrictions” and “safe, legal, and rare”, but they end up voting for “abortion on-demand”. They would rather live in a country where THEY can live and get abortions or where they can *feel* like they’ve made an allowance for a “medical necessity” rather than stand for something. If they took a stand against abortion completely, they’d have to live with the weight on their shoulders that they’ve hypothetically caused the deaths of 800 million women who ALL apparently just HAD to have their babies killed for a “medical emergency”.

  12. Clueless_Enigma says:

    So a family friend of ours (lets call her Jane for simplicity’s sake) ended up getting raped by her uncle, back when she was incredibly young. Unfortunately for her, however, she was old enough to have ended up getting pregnant (odd choice of words perhaps, as if there’s ever a bright side to rape), and due to the stigma of abortions for Jane (would’ve been back in the early 70’s) she was made to carry the child to term and then put it up for adoption. Cool, baby lives, Jane doesn’t have to raise the child herself and deal with the associated trauma of being reminded of her uncles gift that keeps on giving every day, right?

    Flash forward 40 years from then and one day Jane finds a friend request on Facebook from a person she doesn’t recognize, but finds in her inbox a lengthy and emotional letter from the rape baby that she never wanted anything to do with or even wanted in the first place insisting on meeting with her over ‘medical history’ information. Turns out that the child had managed to track down Jane’s full name despite the medical records supposedly having that information locked from the child to protect her when putting the child up for adoption. *My* mother, who grew up with Jane, said that this drudged up long repressed memories for Jane, whom at the time was already in ailing health at this point in her life. On the virtues of not killing a child, Jane was forced to endure months of unsolicited rants and ravings from the child, ranging from the accusatory heartless mother tirade to the violently emotional blame of her life being ruined because she didn’t have her mom in her life, going on for about a year.

    Jane ended up passing away that year, I want to say that alcoholism in her life had finally caught up to her but I can’t remember precisely, with the last year of her life being berated with her uncle’s gift that kept on giving. Jane never responded to this person, who took this as an open invitation to unload emotional baggage on someone she knew nothing about aside from her name on a Facebook account, and ensured that Jane was full and well reminded of what horrific abuse she was forced to endure up until the day she died.

    Seamus, I hope you get the opportunity to see this, as I think the moral absolutist perspective cannot survive outside of a vacuum, especially when your moral decisions are being chosen for you, like Jane, despite your opinions on the matter.

    • ZedS says:

      Talk about making an absolutist argument. You’re literally defending the practice of forcing death (an absolute) on someone (who’s defenseless, btw) over the chance that one or both parties (mother and child) MAY have a “hard” time in life if the child isn’t murdered. Well, it’s an absolute that a child that is murdered as a pre-born infant never gets to experience life. It’s also fact that over 99% of people who’ve experienced life would prefer to go on living even when life sucks. Your argument is dressed up as “contemplative” and played up as being “merciful”, but you’re just a monster waiting to prove it. God help us all for the “merciful” , like you, that lurk among us.

  13. Javi says:

    I have never disagreed with more people and hated everyone more then when abortion gets thrown a civilized discussion. It’s like someone throw a grenade and everyone has to jump on it. Sadly these discussions do little to sway people. Neither will concede any ground because one is an absolutist and thru morale conviction can not allow themselves to stray from the word. This is wild because then they have to put a value on who’s life is of more value, it’s a scary thought to have to make that decision. The other is an unprovable scenario that would require someone to come fore and say “Hi, I chose to kill my baby to save my life 😀” And legislating a what if in situations that could have happened or have might have happened, is a scary thing.

  14. athleticgrandma says:

    The mother’s life is more important than the child’s because she’s built relationships in this life and others rely on her, if absolutely necessary to save her life I believe it’s ok (with extreme care and caution) to remove the child and try to save it’s life. Never ok to kill the child.

    • loopygrl says:

      Late to the party but feel that Shamus’s argument could have been articulated better. When he says abortion is never medically necessary he’s right. In a medically necessary situation where the baby needs to be extracted for the health of the mother you can induce labor or extract the baby without intentionally killing it first.

      In fact with an abortion at 14 week like in Tim’s scenario, that is exactly what they do. They give the woman a drug that induces labor. However what makes it an abortion is that they also give the baby poison to stop its heart before extraction. This drug sometimes fails and that is how we get live abortions. Skip the poison and deliver the child. It is never medically necessary to poison/kill the child first.

    • loopygrl says:

      Late to the party but feel that Seamus’s argument could have been articulated better. When he says abortion is never medically necessary he’s right. In a medically necessary situation where the baby needs to be extracted for the health of the mother you can induce labor or extract the baby without intentionally killing it first.

      In fact with an abortion at 14 week like in Tim’s scenario, that is exactly what they do. They give the woman a drug that induces labor. However what makes it an abortion is that they also give the baby poison to stop its heart before extraction. This drug sometimes fails and that is how we get live abortions. Skip the poison and deliver the child. It is never medically necessary to poison/kill the child first.

  15. 2BearsBlake says:

    I think you have to believe it isn’t a human to support abortion. I believe that babies are human at the point of conception. Even if you think it isn’t human, it will be one, so I don’t see how you justify it still. I understand that rape and medical reasons can make some hard decisions arise. My heart goes out to those people, but two wrongs never make a right. It is murder.

  16. JCBK says:

    God save us from the religepooosies

  17. MarkVA71 says:

    Seamus has a lot of appeals to authority.

    “Experts I talk to.” Does this include all the experts on Earth or just the ones he agrees with?

  18. Shador says:

    The objectively correct solution is to say life begins when cognitive function starts developing in the brain, which from my understanding starts 22 weeks in. That’s when it should be limited. It’s not a human being without brain waves, we have laws about this already with pulling the plug on people in a vegetative state.

  19. MachismoJoe says:

    I’m taking a hard line on this one. You willingly get inseminated, then say, “nah” and get it aborted, that’s murder. if there’s a heartbeat it’s life. homicide, jail time. abortion isn’t birth control, it’s killing a life that could be….
    I side with Seamus on this one, and my cat that found me a few years back on a very cold night in December. I could have turned up the music and never listened, but I heard her cry for help. Now that skinny kitten runs the house, and teases my dog.

  20. Christopher says:

    Hey Tim. You are acting like a dick on this one

    • Loddy says:

      After 18minutes of this, I can’t watch, Tim’s approach to this was totally wrong on this and he committed the worst debate faux pas ever, he kept talking over Seamus and changing the goalposts before Seamus could even respond.

      I love being a member and I love the show but this was inexcusably poor form on Tim’s part.

  21. DermyWermy says:

    I can respect Tim’s point, but I will die on the hill of pro life.

  22. ParasiticVoid says:

    It’s called a miscarriage Tim

  23. Beth says:

    Tim is refusing to deal with the morality of the issue. He is making strawman arguments and double standards to “make his point”. He’s simply just screaming louder.

  24. ParasiticVoid says:

    Jesus Christ/Allah/Buddha above,Tim shut the fuck up.. disappointed on this one but aye, different strokes I guess. Next time 👌

  25. jklein05 says:

    New member, long time listener. Tim my wife and I both agree that profanity out of your mouth seems unnatural. I understand the use of it as a punctuation in certain instances, just thinking out loud bud. Thanks for the content; it is almost always provoking.
    Also, we do allow our children to listen to the regular show because we find the topics needing to be addressed, and most of the “Christian” talk show hosts we catch in the day are so very bland and lock-step with each other.

  26. Andrey Kazakov says:

    Tim your doing that thing that you get angry at Ian for doing. Making up some stupid 1 in a trillion situation that never happens, just so stupid people can kill babies because it’s inconvenient for her/them.

    • michaeldpieper says:

      Tim – you were owned in this one. Watch this back and see if you can recognize the fact that you spoke over Sheamus and continually put out contrived scenarios to try and make a point on a much larger ethical issue.

  27. MrKaladin says:

    Says “you are losing the argument and you aren’t a medical expert” while not being a medical expert and losing the argument.

  28. Krackatau says:

    Jesus Christ Tim. Shut the fuck up sometimes. Let your guest speak, especially when you directly ask him a question. This was so obnoxious to watch

  29. Andybob1981 says:

    I had a still born son @39 weeks . years later my 3yo son was talking to someone in his room when I said who are you talking to he said my brother . Shook me for months to this day I wonder was it the spirit of my son or the mind of a a child .

  30. Mrsparkle_detailing@hotmail.com says:

    Tim how does one declare one life more valuable than another ?? The mother and father have accepted the risk and know that there is a chance that at birth the mothers life could be at risk, the mother and father have a decision to make at a point where life is at risk and there are Manny mother stay want the safety of the child to come first, unfortunately saying that you have to refer to do called experts is a mute argument bkos manny of the so called experts are compromised to one side or another weather is be one of faith or one of the profits from abortion, the only argument that is challenging one that that the parents have to make a very hard decision and then live with the results!

    And sorry just giving the pro choice side a little to get a little obviously hasn’t worked absolution is the answer , give them a hand they will take your arm!

  31. Mrsparkle_detailing@hotmail.com says:

    Tim your wrong your not listening to what Shamus is saying.
    You don’t have to kill a child to save the life of the mother, there is no argument against doing what ever is necessary to treat the mother and save the mothers life and if the child dies then we’ll it is what it is. But as Shamus said there isn’t any real situation that killing a baby is what will save a mother again specifically by killing the baby is the procedure to save the mother. Having had children and having looked into this situation as my partner was classes as high risk pregnancies from midwife’s and doctors I’ve spoken to and what information we have looked into the the womb doesn’t have any adverse affects that puts harm to the mother apart from time of birth which which usually is from bleeding can be solved by c section .

    Tim your taking propaganda as facts. A dead child being removed isn’t a abortion perhaps it’s classed as abortion but technically it’s not abortion, what pro life class as abortion is taking the life of the child not removing a child.

    Sorry but Shamus wins the argument

    • Jessforau says:

      Ectopic pregnancies require the baby to be aborted. The baby isn’t viable and the longer it grows, the more likely the mother is to die.

  32. Cmwhite13 says:

    Tim has an awful debate style of presenting straw-man hypothetical situations and appealing to experts when convenient.

    Seamus won this, hands down.

    • DBurleson says:

      Even though I agree with his stance you are 100% correct. He is not a good debator or interviewer IMO. I do enjoy the show though (obviously I am here still)

  33. Cmwhite13 says:

    Tim: Yeah but you’re not a medical expert.
    Also Tim: You can’t win the debate just because you reference medical experts.

  34. epizzle75 says:

    Tim let people finish speaking to have a proper discussion. You aren’t winning the argument by talking over him.

  35. KRYPTKEEPER says:

    tims movie sounds almost exactly like DEATH STRANDING videogame

  36. sartoraaus@gmail.com says:

    What kind of mother would allow her child to die when there was even the smallest chance they could live?

  37. KBGConceivedinliberty says:

    Tim. You’re killing me. 35 year emergency medicine physician. Somewhat of an expert. Medically and legally there are spontaneous abortions, threatened abortions, inevitable abortions and elective abortions. Only elective abortions necessitate killing the human organism. In other instances the human organism has already died or will die and nature will take its course. 99% of time nature deals with that and mother does fine. The other times they come to me requiring fluid resuscitation. I’ve seen as many of those bleeding patients from elective abortions requiring fluid resuscitation as from spontaneous abortions.
    Only one of those scenarios killed one and put the other at risk.
    Thanks. Enjoy the show.
    None of those scenarios ever requires killing an innocent human to save another one.
    No physician I’ve ever known in 35 years has offered me a legitimate study or reason that says
    Killing the one will increase chances of saving the other. Who ever is telling you differently is lying or wrong.

    • Minimouse says:

      Tim,
      you were being obtuse and not letting him finish a thought. There is no medical reason that a doctor would have to jam forceps on their spinal cord to save the mother. What he was saying is correct. They might have to deliver the baby prematurely but they don’t have to murder the child.

    • CharlieNormal says:

      I’ve listened through 3 times now. By far the most frustrating podcast with Tim not allowing Seamus to finish thoughts. Why so argumentative? Especially, When in reality, they agree a lot! If they were allowed to finish their thoughts, thered be time to reflect and realize there’s no reason for the attitude and arguing.

    • sartoraaus@gmail.com says:

      “99%” doesn’t sound like a scientifically accurate number…just saying…

    • CharlieNormal says:

      Tim and Seamus,
      In the future if you revisit this topic, please please please define the term “abortion” in the beginning of these discussions. The first 1/2 is you two missing eachother purely because of semantics. And please listen to eachother, the interruptions are obnoxious and not a kind representation of what we (the fans) know is possible of everyone on this episode of the podcast.
      Thank you for having the difficult conversations, it is invaluable to those that take the time to listen. I just know that ya’ll can be much more effective. We have seen it before. Love ya’ll! Keep them coming.

  38. TheChaseYouLike says:

    Ectopic pregnancy is the only time an abortion should be performed. The baby is going to die, and if brought far enough into gestation, the mother could die as well. Why would it be better to let them both die, than to end a life that would never even make it out of the womb?

    • KBGConceivedinliberty says:

      That is inevitable death for fetus and very possible for mother if ruptures. Not an elective abortion that chooses to rip a human apart where and when it should be safest.

  39. Skoomaking90 says:

    From the religious/freedom aspect we have been given free will to decide what choice to make about abortion. The male ejaculates into the vaginal canal causing sperm to travel up the fallopian tube to fertilize an egg. The standard of wating till marriage arguably while religious did factually allow a mother a standard of care and security. Its an issue of responsibility if you are knowingly having sex and then “accidentally become pregnant. ” The other instance of pregnancy outside of responsibility is Rape which is a henious crime and wish that burden not even on my enemy. This is why we have free will religiously and freedom based in our country. Roe V Wade should be overturned and it shold be a states rights issue and people move freely based on how laws are created.

  40. Finecast says:

    At some point with the trajectory of the lefts views on abortion, we will end up in a “Children of Men” world and they would still be cheering on “no more annoying children left “

  41. JohnTheEmu says:

    The left wants unrestricted abortions so they can then mandate who gets children when shit hits the fan

  42. chucka187@icloud.com says:

    Being involved with 2 abortions in a previous relationship. One I supported and the other I didn’t. The physiological impact I went through I can’t describe unless you go through it for yourself. One law that should be changed is the man should have some legal right to keep the child if the mother is healthy and he is willing to support the mother 100% until the baby is born.

  43. StMyles2 says:

    It was like I was watching Johnny Carson… more adult cuts… 😂😂😂

  44. Mike280zx says:

    Tim: you’re appealing to authority.
    also Tim: makes argument to authority
    lol sorry I love you Tim

  45. hcmauve@hotmail.com says:

    Sheamus arguing from an emotional perspective loses automatically.
    Yes, delivering the baby carries risks that letting the baby die or aborting it wouldn’t.

    • jwschwalb says:

      This is a great example of 2 people who are just not good at presenting an argument or carrying out a conversation with opposing views.

      It devolves into a shouting match multiple times and nether takes on new information.

      This will likely lead to no changed minds as people will just stick to their world view.

      And if I’m 100% honest I think the answer is somewhere between the two. Every effort should be made to save the baby, up to the point of undue risk to the mother. I think Tim is closer to the answer but is too liberal with its application.

  46. Juan709 says:

    Fauci is an “Expert”

  47. Juan709 says:

    Fauci is an “Exp

  48. Nick1diesel says:

    Tim your wrong! This is a moral argument not a political argument. Have kids and see the love and the responsibility that is given to you and you won’t ever argue this again !

  49. Vashts1985 says:

    Ian: “it may be alive but i dont know if its human”

    we is sure as fuck isint a dog…

    the hell else do you think it is?

  50. FergusonRage says:

    The point Seamus was making that flew over Tims head is that if a mother has to terminate pregnancy early, that the doctors should attempt to save the infant even if it is born early, instead of killing it during extraction.

  51. JustinM says:

    Fun fact – even the Catholic church has exceptions for when the life of the mother is at risk, coming down on the side of preserving the mother.

    Frankly that’s the only exception there should be. It is murder.

  52. AaronA says:

    They both make good points. its a case of (IMO) they are both just misunderstanding each other point. Tim’s point- There should NOT bea law because new information can always arise.
    Seamus point- There SHOULD be a law stating the Doctor MUST do everything in his power to save the baby, not that the baby HAS to survive but an ATTEMPT must atleast be made.

  53. seabrooksgeorge@gmail.com says:

    We shouldn’t leave Morality in the hands of “Experts”

  54. Top_Sauce says:

    Man, I really hope Tim doesn’t hurt himself jumping to conclusions…

    • smc7 says:

      I’m cancelling my subscription, I can’t take Tim not letting people speak and acting arrogant anymore, he doesn’t deserve my money. “You’re not gonna win an argument with me” Yeah we know dude you’re always so right you can’t let other people speak

  55. Padre says:

    I think that Seamus is referring to the once popular Principle of Double of Double-Effect in Catholic moral teaching. I appreciate the discussion and the passion in it. I would think that after the last 15 months deferring to experts without question is a mistake. Questions are never a mistake. Making people uncomfortable with questions opens the door for potential growth as well as a negative hateful response for those whose wills are incapable of change. Thanks Tim & Seamus.

  56. JReyes says:

    Tim lost that argument.

  57. Draco0420 says:

    Ian…..i know youre reading this….just know, that i know

  58. raifo92 says:

    You guys are arguing over less than 1% of abortions, is the key part.

    • Lavacool says:

      Exactly, 99% kill the baby because its convenient for their situations. I disagree with Tim and any other person who doesn’t acknowledge the baby is alive. They like to say “Fetus” or “Zygote” but never “Baby” they try to take the humanity out of it. Its exactly as Shamus says a human life no matter what.

  59. drozencweig says:

    Ectopic pregnancy is a good example of a pregnancy situation in which a chemical termination of the pregnancy is far more favorable than the likely scenario of a rupture and hemorrhage that kills both.

  60. NoOne123 says:

    Man, Seamus i think makes an extremely strong argument that i don’t think Tim quite caught on though has talked about in the past. We acknowledge that we’re in a culture war. The right is absolutely losing because the left makes moves while the right makes compromises and Seamus believes in sticking to his principles and unmoving from them(good on him). “Death by a thousand cuts” aka, “the slippery slope” is a legitimate strategy to slowly chip away at someones morals/principles overtime and force them into concession(which is kind of what Tim is trying to do here). Seamus says, “The left are saying kill all the babies. kill as many as you want for any reason. I’m saying kill none of them and you’re saying kill some of them”. That was a fantastic exchange especially with how hard Tim is laying down his argument.

    if i recall correctly, James Lindsay states that the left moves, “dialectically”. The term “dialectic” when it comes to marxism(upper/lower class based warefare) basically means to take an idea and then propose an opposite idea and through that you deconstruct the original idea and give birth to a new idea. An example of this would be like

    Person A: “The Sky is blue”
    Person B: “is the sky blue at night?”
    Person A: “The sky is blue, sometimes”

    Person B has successfully deconstructed the original statement and forced person A to a compromise on their statement. You can keep the exchange going and eventually force person A to slowly make concessions before conceding almost completely. This is essentially what the left has done over the past few decades and why we ended up where we are today.

    • NoOne123 says:

      Tim argues like a leftist btw. This has been really interesting to see. Especially when he keeps accusing Seamus of not being a medical professional which Tim isnt either so why does he keep making that accusation as if it gives weight to his argument? It doesn’t. Tim claims there are doctors that agree with his position and Seamus says there are doctors that agree with him and Tim responds with a loud dismissal, “SO WHAT!”. Now it doesn’t matter what medical professionals say because there are those that disagree with Tims point of view? Thats interesting. Tim then proclaims, “YOU HAVE LOST THE ARGUMENT!” which is an interesting emotional accusation as well but a completely inaccurate one. This shit is wild to see.

  61. JEHOD says:

    CCP JUBILEE
    In some ancient Jewish traditions every fifty years a ‘Jubilee’ would be declared when said debts would be cancelled. While complicated in practice it seems to have been a method to prevent debt slavery across generations which has been extant throughout much of the world over millennia.
    Following the 32nd anniversary of the massacre of over 10,000 peaceful reformers at Tiananmen Square
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42465516
    perhaps it is well past time to pass judgement on the authoritarian, genocidal, on-demand organ harvesting slave labor regime of the PRC.
    For my country, the USA, they have been exporting fentanyl to kill tens of thousands of my countrymen and women every year. They have been doing; likewise, with a variety of drugs throughout the world for decades.
    For a reasonable analysis of their methods look to “Unrestricted Warfare,” a book written in the late nineties by two PLA majors, now generals, which is simply Sun Tzu on technological steroids. When they say unrestricted, they mean it. Cyber warfare, propaganda, disinformation, psych warfare, drugs, nuclear, chemical and biological warfare to boot.
    And the latter brings us to the crux of the CCP biscuit of their release of the Covid19 pandemic which has claimed over three million lives so far. It seems quite evident now that the CCP/PRC at minimum obfuscated regarding the nature of the disease and its origins, let alone its probable spread. “No indication of human to human transmission,” was its opening; denying access to original samples of the virus followed immediately. The WHO, apparently compromised by the CCP, parroted their narrative of the wet market scenario to export this disease throughout the world. No problems, only animal to human transfer. A cynic might ask if this was not simply CYA, but intentional proliferation of the pandemic. It’s not like this regime has not killed tens of millions of its own citizens.
    Here’s a question: how many excess deaths among the elder population occurred in the PRC and were not coded as Covid related, perhaps alleviating to some extent their 4-2-1 demographic problem. Perhaps, most people can’t conceive of such a demonic regime, but if not, you should simply look to the results of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution to name only two among many.
    The PRC is in violation of the Hague Convention ruling on the South China Sea, and against their avowed claims not to militarize the area, have done so. They are currently subjugating the Tibetans, Manchus, Quighars, and quite frankly all of the Song culture of the Yangtze, not to mention various other cultural minorities kept as tourist enclaves.
    The goodwill the world showered on the PRC in hopes that it would integrate into the international system has led to infiltration of our international organizations and through PRC bribery and every other nefarious means the CCP could use to undermine the international order that had raised more people out of poverty than any other. So, what can we conceive other than a CCP Nomenklatura has decided upon a path of world domination? Perhaps the most racist, authoritarian regime ever seeks hegemony. Is this a world you would wish to live in? Imprisonment with DNA analysis of your suitability for transplant status as a result of your opposition opinions?
    It’s time for a CCP Jubilee, all debt traps with the ‘Belt and Road Initiative’ are off. No one anywhere owes anything to the CCP and their minions. Those minions include almost every Chinese company of any size subject to the CCP and that is virtually everyone of them. The PRC should be expelled from all international organizations and all monetary exchanges with the PRC void. Without immediate reform, a literal naval and financial blockade of the PRC should proceed immediately. To the many subjugated peoples of the PRC we should offer freedom. The history of China is warlordism with periods of imperial domination, by one lord and his gaggle of murderous sycophants under the ‘Mandate of Heaven,’ and woe betide everyone else. Nice system. Dalenda est PRC!

  62. kltmariani says:

    Tim needs a little more research on viability of babies in utero, birth defects and pregnancy. As a former employee of the March of Dimes, there have been a lot of medical advances in diagnosing and treating medical emergencies in pregnant women and children in utero. Tim needs more info. I am prochoice. But I can tell you from my experience of speaking with many families who have lost children due to horrific birth defects and women who had life threatening complications. The moms never regret fighting for their babies and the children who survived, WITH defects, are some of the sweetest life-loving humans. Life should be fought for not erased due to inconvenience.

  63. agoristl says:

    Tim’s pragmaticism can be irritating. Not because his conclusion is wrong, the reason pro-life is losing the argument is because they refuse to compromise. But because he acts like all that matters is winning, even if it means abandoning principles.
    Seamus is sticking to his principles, no abortion, period. And that might mean he loses because he’s not willing to find a middle ground on that. I’d rather lose on principle than win by compromising them. It’s simple, Tim. If you compromise your principle to win, you lost your principle and you lost your fight. You surrendered to practicality and to those you have stark moral and ethical differences with.
    Personally, I am ‘pro-life’ personally, and I find abortion, in general, to be abhorrent. BUT, I cannot say definitively, empirically, that a zygote is a living human. And while I do believe that a fetus is a human, even if it isn’t viable outside of the mother, I recognize that is a belief, not an empirical fact. Therefore, my stance is that I have no definitive social stance on abortion prior to roughly 20 weeks from a ‘legal’ perspective other than it is not my choice to make and so I would leave it to the mother of the child(not my child) to make that determination and live with the result. I may personally believe they are wrong and morally culpable, but that’s the issue with legality vs. morality. You need more than belief to justify legal judgments, but I can still make moral judgments.
    To the original point, Tim needs to be careful with his tendency to get upset when someone’s principles are getting in the way of their ‘winning’ politically. You can’t abandon principle for victory or it is hollow and sure to go down its own path of horror. It’s what happened to the left and its what happens to every ideology that justifies the means by the proposed, victorious end.
    Returning to abortion, while a woman who is raped or a victim of incest is not someone I can hold judgment against, and while I can’t wag my finger at a young girl who is told by those around her she has no other options, the idea that abortion is no big deal and a form of contraception, that it’s a viable first round option for avoiding becoming an unprepared parent? Fuck those people, they should be chased to the wastes and wilds and forced to live and die like the animals they are.

    • sartoraaus@gmail.com says:

      “Compromise” = is “some” rape a fair compromise on the rape v no-rape debate between monsters and men? Of, course not; to pretend “compromise” is always reasonable isn’t well thought out.

  64. Astarr1462 says:

    So basically Tim wants to live in a medical tyranny.

  65. 99centfury says:

    At 25 minutes I felt it was an argument of 20% chance of a drop vs 1/5. Team Seamus though, they did not talk much about rape for that I think killemall

  66. firemedicwolf7 says:

    Bravo on this conversation. Regardless of where you stand on this issue it is refreshing to see people who are able to have a disagreement and not want to kill each other like what is the current climate in this country.

  67. TheDarkworld says:

    It’s hard to say “I situationally support abortion” and know where to draw the line because everyone’s argument pulls at your emotions. Both made good arguments but when Catholics start talking about abortion I start picturing overflowing orphanages and is that a good life to force someone to live? Idk

    • FirstThessalonian says:

      Who are we to decide the life of someone? All we know is circumstances led to a life. What happens from there? Born into squalor, or royalty a Human can cause many life arcs of other humans to change, by their presence or not. Imagine how many babies that would have grown up to be scientists and lawyers and thinkers, could have inspired many, but now all whispers in the cosmos, as they never had the chance to fulfill their part of our world. ANd yet, such is the fate ordained for them, and for all our ordained time of life and death however short or long, or tragic.

  68. Evocatus says:

    IAN, a wart doesn’t fall off in 9 months and begin discovering the world, having a life of its own.

  69. BrAv3ry says:

    Grateful for this episode. Really helped me better explain my own view on abortion and to better understand that because of how personal of a moral dilemma it is, people’s definitions/understandings of abortion will be different. Very valuable information there.

  70. Badass_Betty says:

    Tim’s argument on abortion is completely in line with every pro-lifer including Ben Shapiro who’s said on many occasions that if it really comes down to saving the mother or the child, you ALWAYS save the mother’s life.
    When my aunt was pregnant with her twins she was told one of them had downs syndrome and would more than likely die either during deliveryor during the pregnancy, the doctor urged her to get an abortion which could kill the other baby. She got a second opinion and got the same answer.
    She had both babies, they’re both alive today and just had their 5th birthday. And as far as my little cousin with downs syndrome, he was my ring bearer at my wedding. She was told he’d never eat, walk, or talk, he does all of that on his own now. Doctors are wrong in so many of these circumstances. My aunt made the right choice for her beautiful babies.

  71. abodine130 says:

    I joined to hear Tim say fuck and this bonus ep delivered!!

  72. Willshag4abag says:

    More rice crispy treats!!!!!! Let the man eat. Love you guys keep up the great work

  73. Kaipolani says:

    Docs will be able to tell pretty decisively if the baby is dead or not in the womb(heartbeat, blood flow, movement, and growth) If baby is dead and measuring larger than 12 weeks, mother has no choice but to have procedure to remove baby otherwise she can medically induce at home or in hospital. It’s dangerous to induce anywhere other than hospital passed 12-13weeks gestation, baby is too big and could break up in pieces causing infection inside the womb.
    I understand the medical term for early inducing is abortion regardless, but to us mothers who’ve dealt with ‘missed miscarriages’ or miscarriages in general, it’s a huge insult to conflate us with people who so casually would end the life of their child. After my missed miscarriage, I had a difficult time mentally being lumped together with all abortions. Feminists keep conflating the two for argument’s sake and it’s just not the same. Abortion is an insult to me. I had a missed miscarriage and that’s all to it.

  74. Zippykins says:

    This is one of the rare arguments where there really is no right or wrong answer

  75. shadowfoxx says:

    I see what Seamus is saying. The difference between his argument and medically necessary abortion is that the goal isn’t the abortion, rather it’s to remove a developing fetus from a woman. It’s kind of an argument if semantics, but it’s also an argument if intent for the outcome of the procedure

  76. EnjoyCoke says:

    Two things.
    Your UI for this website is terrible. The search functions are terrible. Hire me, godf’ingdamnit.

    On a more serious note: You and Seamus cannot reach a conclusion to your abortion-debate, because you are approaching the subject from two very different pillars of world view. These differences are irreconcilable.

    Seamus understands what abortion is.
    Tim does not understand what abortion is.

    Abortion is the TERMINATION of the fetus, NOT the pregnancy. Abortion is a procedure in which the fetus is sucked into a fucking blender. Removing the fetus otherwise (e.g C-section) is NOT an abortion.
    Feeding the mother hormones to trigger labor is NOT abortion.
    Tim consistently talks about the above mentioned (or variations thereof) as if they were what Seamus refers to as abortion. They are NOT interchangeable.

    Triggering a birthing prematurely MAY lead to the fetus deceasing, sure. But that is a miscarriage (if dead on arrival) or simply child death (if the fetus deceases later)

    Abortion is: A procedure to terminate a fetus. Not birth it prematurely.

    You are being pedantic when you speak about “the law says”, Tim. Re-defining “abortion” to include the removal of dead fetus (without first terminating it) or prematurely trigger birthing does not change the fact that “abortion” is (afaik, at least for now) the termination of a functioning fetus.
    If abortion includes all of the above, then we need a new word for what is no longer abortion.

    ALSO. On the ethics-part. Aborting a baby that shows high risk of coming out with Down’s or similar ailments is not wrong. it’s eugenics and eugenics is good. I mean that, 100%. Anyone who disagrees with me believes in faeries or is trolling and neither deserves my respect.

  77. DorseyWoods says:

    I live in Virginia (until you hire me and I move) and our governor is one of the sickest people alive. “Post birth abortion “, aka MURDER to him is completely justified if the mother doesn’t want to be a parent. No requirement for the would be father to even know much less have any say in what does or doesn’t happen. I have had a child of mine aborted by a woman who never even told me she was pregnant and had been together for years. Traumatized by this, When I met my wife I told her that abortion would never be an option as a precondition to moving past a first date. We’ve now been married for 5 years and we have a beautiful 4 year old daughter. Not a day goes by that I don’t secretly mourn the loss of the child I was never allowed to know. The joy of Looking into my daughter’s eyes is what life is all about. Nothing in life has ever compared to it.

  78. Paigeholland says:

    Please get ahold of Neal s and make his book unwind a movie!!!!

  79. The_Middling says:

    Usually when a woman has a “medical abortion” it is usually a miscarriage where the embryo still needs to be removed. It is neccesary to remove the embryo for the mother’s health at that point. Usually these are already tramatic and nothing a mother ever wants.

  80. misterbehavior says:

    I mostly agree with Seamus, but there ARE situations such as ectopic pregnancy or sepsis where the baby developing could kill the mother. Now those situations are extremely rare, but they happen. I’m not a medical professional either but I don’t need to be to know about this stuff.

    I think Tim’s constant argument that we always need to defer to doctors is wrong, because we do know that as Lydia said —- doctors are sometimes wrong, and they can and will push ideas and information for political reasons. Look no further than the last year and a half of our life.

    And Ian — it’s an incipient human life. Full stop.

  81. A3mercury says:

    It frustrates me that Tim won’t let him speak. He keeps talking over Seamus while throwing weird allegations.

    • Liam_the_Failure says:

      Tim, please shut the fuck up and let Seamus speak. Saying, “you’re wrong, you’re not a medical expert, and you’re trying to make an absolute claim” is super fucking annoying. Be respectful to your guests when you have them on, I’m not asking for a lot.

  82. Paigeholland says:

    Atopic pregnancy a baby could live to full term or could explode and causes deadly internal bleeding.

  83. jrhaile says:

    Wife just had a miscarriage forcing her to have a DNC after the sack didn’t come out. Outright banning abortion is fucking stupid, it’s just sad the democommies have twisted it so far left that we as tax payers are now paying for them to kill healthy babies. Fucking scumbags, all of them.

    • DorseyWoods says:

      I believe the key in your statement is in the definition. If there’s already been a miscarriage then there is no life to abort. This isn’t an abortion. They’ve just attached the name of abortion to it so they can use it to further the agenda. The left is fantastic at changing definitions so the narrative and laws support their fucked up ideologies. Killing a human life is fucked up. Period.

  84. nivina says:

    It’s getting more and more painful to listen to Tim debate things in such a way. He overpowers every conversation that could otherwise be super interesting.

  85. spoonsofdoom says:

    nice kafka trap tim..

  86. Plaguen says:

    I was told there would be more Seamus doing Jordan Peterson impressions…

  87. Feddy_Von_Wigglestein says:

    They should hook up vegetables to machines that monitor their heart rate, then go into their room and talk about pulling the plug. If their heart rate quickens from fear of death, boom they’re still cognitive. Maybe it doesn’t work that way but I had the idea.

    Also worth noting that the original hippocratic oath specifically says that medical people should never perform abortions. Nowadays they’re very selective it would seem.

  88. RadTrad says:

    I only have this subscription for Seamus

  89. TRose says:

    Doing a c section to remove a baby that is too young to survive on its own is not an abortion.

  90. Golddess says:

    Maybe I am misunderstanding Tim, but his argument appears to be we can’t have any laws about abortion because sometimes it’s needed. If that argument were applied to other acts, we couldn’t have laws against homicide because sometimes a person must kill another person in self defense.

  91. MysteryGuest says:

    I wanted to hear what Shamus had to say, Tim you interrupt too much because you know Shamus is right. I’m rarely irritated with Tim but this was pretty bad. Shamus’ argument is basically that everything possible should be done to save both. Tim constructs a scenario ‘what if both mom and the baby are going to die no matter what unless you abort’. C-Sections basically completely defeat all the scenarios Tim is able to contrive. Does Tim REALLY think Shamus is arguing to leave a dead baby in a mother till she dies? Silliness.

  92. quez says:

    I agree with Seamus

  93. NickMrko says:

    My wife had a Subchorionic haemorrhage. It was a rare scenario for this condition. If she went into labour at full term or continued growing she likely would have bled out if not close to a hospital when it occurred. It also caused her to clot and bleed so often and she was given a choice. Risk assessment of the balance of the pregnancy would end in one of two results. The week my wife and I decided to make our choice(yes our) she miscarried in the car while I was driving. These conditions exist. Stick to animation and scripture.

    • tjswoff@gmail.com says:

      The problem with allowing women to get abortion if raped would end in more rape allegations. I don’t know how often women get pregnant when they are raped, but I think some men might get thrown under the bus if you can only get an abortion if you are raped

    • Feddy_Von_Wigglestein says:

      Thats a single anecdote. I can just counter with Tim Tebow’s story – the doctors insisted that he needed to be aborted and his mother refused and he ended up perfectly healthy and normal. And dominated the highest level of collegiate football play. Now our score is tied. This is why anecdotes don’t work for arguments.

  94. YayaMac says:

    Tim is so uneducated on these issues. When the mother’s life is in danger, the baby is DELIVERED, either by natural birth or C-section. And the baby either survives or it does not. That’s NOT an abortion. Seamus is right–There is not a single case documented of abortion being the only solution to a pregnant woman’s endangerment. The left has succeeded in conflating and changing the narrative and Tim is falling for it. Thank you Seamus for sticking to your principles for the voiceless.

  95. KyleWillis says:

    Tim literally had no argument here. His only point was the fallacy of appealing to an expert. It’s like this last year hasn’t made him realize anything

    • misterbehavior says:

      Facts. I get annoyed sometimes when I hear that stuff —- as if “listen to the experts” hasn’t already been proven to be a terrible idea in more cases than the opposite.

  96. Savannah.allen@gmail.com says:

    Hey! I had a mulberry tree at my previous house, and we made awesome mulberry jam!! But it was even better when we mixed it was blackberries we picked! Try it! It would be delish on some of Ian’s homemade bread!

  97. Txbow says:

    Dude Tim your dad is pro life and if you believe as he does so are you. The pro life’s only argument for an unborn child dying it’s to save the mother. Always has been. But, the whole problem with these arguments is they only argue a very small percentage of abortions. Let’s talk about the 90% probably way higher of abortions taking place. The ones used as birth control that our tax dollars pay for.

  98. Halfasshere98 says:

    So my girl was pregnant we went to the clinic for a scan and we discovered that it had been conjoined in the vaginal channel instead of the uterus it would have killed her past 2 months pregnant and wouldn’t have survived she took a pill idk I’m not a doctor take that as you will

  99. Stickywicket1977 says:

    I’m 43 married for 15 years with a 11 year old boy. Back in 1997 I was dating a girl and we decided to have a abortion. Fast forward to today and I regret it, we made the wrong decision.

  100. KethAtril says:

    It is always a good segment with shamus. Just wanted to say that I loved this one. It does hit home with me. I had to make a hard call while my wife was on an operating table. My wife or the child. I told the doctor to do everything to save them both. Then the doctor said they will do everything in there power but on the off chance they can only save one of them. I told him to save my wife. Once the doctor left I collapsed to my knees and began to just ball my eyes out.

  101. Element says:

    If an adult is diagnosed with a terminal medical condition, would it be okay to murder them because they are going to die anyway?

  102. Element says:

    Tim, you’re not a medical expert either.

  103. AVega says:

    The procedure to remove a dead fetus is called a D&C not abortion.

  104. Jinks says:

    I used to be pro choice as I considered it a liberty issue. But in a devils advocate argument with my friend, I realized how wrong I was. His argument, which is what mine was, its her body and we dont know when life begins so who are we to decide. Hearing my own words I realized how stupid and disconnected from reality that argument was. I looked at him and said, its not her body, does she have 2 hearts, two sets of lungs, four arms? It is anothers body. Further more we dont know exactly when life and awareness truly begins, who are we to decide to kill that child in our ignorance?

    Then from personal experience-
    Three Doctors or as you state “medical experts” told my step mother she should get an abortion as she had a medical procedure done while she was unknowingly pregnant. They each told her the baby would most likely be special needs and she should abort.
    She refused delivered the baby. His name is Alex, he has no medical issues and graduated college with a computer science major along with his minor in cyber security. He just left for basic training for the army and is goin to OCS after.

  105. adm13 says:

    You’re trying to talk about specifics without knowing any. Here is a specific, an ectopic pregnancy. This pregnancy is never viable and if left to its own end will end in the death of both. There are two routes that can be taken, an abortion or a procedure to address the issue with the fallopian tube. The first is prochoice and the second is prolife. The first does not address the issue in the woman’s body and its intention is to end the pregnancy. The second is a medical procedure that is addressing the issue with the woman’s body. The secondary cause is the death of the child but is unintended. This is not an abortion because an abortion should be defined as the deliberate ending of a pregnancy. They are different and the second is specifically prolife and is not the direct killing which is why it wouldn’t be considered an abortion.

  106. SunnyZ says:

    Aboritions for some, miniature American flags for others!

  107. TheJungman says:

    Tim, stop using the terminology of the left.

  108. Vmanzo says:

    I’m sorry but Tim is such a hypocrite. He spends all day and night complaining about fauci and how doctors are being corrupt causing the opioid epidemic.
    Then preaches about blindly listening to doctors as if they are angels from god and arbiters of truth.
    Doctors are wrong. Very very very often.
    I went to my doctor for a yearly checkup on April 10th. My doctor suggested I get the j&j vaccine because they had it available. I said no. 3 days later it gets banned from the fda. I call my doctor and ask wtf he was recommending it for. And he replies “sorry man I’m just doing what I’m told by the health department and cdc”
    And this is a guy who owns his private practice.
    Doctors are corrupt.
    You don’t need a degree to be an expert. All you do to get a degree is research and learn. You don’t need school to do that.

    • fellowshipotr52@gmail.com says:

      Tim Pool: science is politicized and fauci is corrupt.

      Also Tim Pool: well if a doctor says get an abortion then listen to them.

      So do we blindly follow a doctors orders or do we take their advice but think for ourselves?

  109. Nova says:

    Tim can say whatever the fuck he wants but he is closer to the far left with “abortions for all” than he is to the pro life argument. To state otherwise is fucking idiotic, like full on smooth brain, bottom of the barrel retarded level idiotic. There are 3 arguments here, 2 of them are “abortions are allowed” which means Tim is, without a fucking doubt, closer to the “celebrate abortions” side than the pro life side, period!

  110. Dack says:

    Tim really needs to let people finish speaking before jumping down there throat like dude you’re not that smart and people who interrupt look dumb to the audience. Also clearly I could never have a debate with tim on anything ever. Because I tend to react violently when interrupted and talked down to. Probably why tim is a west burbs skater who just lived in the south side because if he’s always been like this then it’s a guarantee he would have got hurt bad

  111. jmusto says:

    Unbelievable bonus segment, easily one of the best you guys have done. Ian worries me though, lmao. Honesty, if Ian just watched Crowder’s Change My Minds on abortion he’ll probably end up where Seamus is, or at least where Tim is at in this abortion debate.

  112. Tim_Pool says:

    tim
    U forfeited 2 of ur regular arguments ~
    a) the left resides in ‘Non-reality’
    { ur non-arguments reveal YOU do }
    b) ur guns are ok
    { u believe u’ve a “Right” to end an
    undesirable.
    do u believe YOU have sovereignty over ur own body & mind or something ?!

  113. Vmanzo says:

    I used to be pro choice. No I am 99% pro life. Let me explain:
    https://www.hli.org/resources/shouldnt-allow-abortions-help-victims-rape/
    Here is a study where they ask 2.44 million women between 1996-2020 who have had abortions, why they had abortions. Only 0.39% were from rape. I’m sorry, but that means we murdered 2.4 million babies for no reason.
    Here is my stance on abortion legality:
    I don’t support legalizing abortions. I think it should illegal nationwide. As far as rape and those instances, clearly they represent a very very very small fraction. But I still want to take care of those victims. So, if you are raped, you should file a police report. Once you have filed a police report for rape, the state will then grant you immunity to get an abortion for the rape. Unless you file a police report, no abortion for you.

    • FxTwT says:

      I agree to a certain extent. I think that other cases should be considered when a mother will die if she carries the child or during the birthing process.

      There are may contraceptives that women should consider before abortion, and I agree that women are abusing this “service” greatly.

      Not to mention that often times the fathers of these children are unaware. The father of a child deserves a say.

      Just my .02¢

      • Tim_Pool says:

        all prescribed birth control pills
        are abortifacient
        “with typical use the effectiveness of the pill is 91 percent. ”
        That’s 9 women ‘accidentally’ pregnant per year.
        Do you think they all keep all the babies??
        How many birth control pills are equal to a Plan B?
        In general, you must take 2 to 5 birth control pills at the same time to have the same protection.
        –Emergency contraception: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

    • Tim_Pool says:

      “we murdered 2.4 million babies ”
      Please don’t murder anymore babies

    • Tincup436 says:

      So you could lie to get a police report and then the murder is ok??? There are several cases of women falsifying rape allegations. How many of those who got a waver would still have extra emotional trauma from having the abortion, like many who have an abortion do??? Adoption is available and then at least something good comes from a tragedy.

    • misterbehavior says:

      The problem with abortion in the case of rape is that legal abortion can help the rapist cover there tracks, especially in cases of incest or minor abuse.

  114. RomanGZ says:

    I’m kind of torn… On the one hand, I’m pro abortion because it kills babies, but the down-side is it gives women a choice. Hrmm..

  115. Pathunt92@icloud.com says:

    Why is Tim making a Hollywood storyline argument from greys anatomy abortions are never medically necessary that is only in the movies. Did we not just hear Tim this week speak about how suppressors are only Nfa items because of Hollywood making them seem like tools of assassination.

    I also disagree with Seamus that 800,000 number can come down a lot with a legit compromise pro lifers are losing the war against abortion. Ted Cruz tried to create legislation for it to only include women with rape cases and medical necessities. It would have reduced the number to about 12,000/year you can’t save them all but you can do everything in your power to help.

  116. Gazz says:

    I will allways prefer and be greatfull that there are abortion clinics if that prevents teenage girls aborting themselves at home.
    If you require a rule that internal hemariging is the requirement is for an abortion then you can guess what will happen.

  117. tlhalvo11@gmail.com says:

    My ex girlfriend was cheating on me and had an abortion before she started cheating. I did not find out about this until several years later. I’m still disgusted by it. It sickens me. I’d have gladly raised the child 100% by myself. The new man encouraged her to get the abortion. I hope it tears at her soul for the rest of her mortal life. And if I had the chance I’d beat that asshole lifeless

  118. ThorAsgard says:

    For once i would like Lydia to speak, i know she has some good stuff to say on this.

  119. atroposjuno@yahoo.com says:

    There are many very ill women who can’t have a baby without risking themselves. There are certain conditions that make them very high risk. The thing is, if you are that sick, you generally know it before you would get pregnant. If you know you are too sick, stop doing the things that could result in getting pregnant. It’s your choice if you want to take that chance.

  120. Winterlight87 says:

    I dont understand why we are trying so hard to save these people from themselves. Legalize abortion and be done with it. The intelligent people will reproduce and the unintelligent violent types wont. Once we all normalize we can then ban abortion with no argument. See THIS is why conservatives keep losing… democrats play the long game… conservatives are just too reactionary. We need to beat them at their own game. This means giving them everything they want…or claim they do because we all know they simply take these stances because it wins them votes. But just give it to them and and watch the democrats lose their “moral ground” and the followers suffer and die by their own hand. Its merciless, but so was god at times… and now we should know why.

  121. ThorAsgard says:

    Why does abortion have to be in the realm of religion? Im agnostic(similar to atheist) and i am pro-life. Life is invaluable, i dont need to believe in a god to know that.

    • RomanGZ says:

      I’m kind of torn… On the one hand, I’m pro abortion because it kills babies, but the down-side is it gives women a choice. Hrmm..

  122. BillH says:

    The over use of hypotheticals are kinda muting my enjoyment of the shows. You can always create a fictitious scenario to prove your point and “win” the debate, no matter how unlikely the hypothetical is. I’ve heard “What if…” more times in the last few shows than I would care to count. I understand there can be value in them if it helps you avoid the law of unintended consequences, but that’s not what’s happening here imho. Sometimes a “win” isn’t really a win and if you have to create some wild scenario to prove a point, it actually makes your position look weaker to the viewer. I’m here and willing to pay for your content, so I hope you understand my statement isn’t coming from a place of malice. (Small m not the big M like Michael Malice, who you didn’t even mention in the shows today! lol)

  123. BlazeCast says:

    Tim always resorts to belittling or misrepresenting anyone who doesn’t agree with him. Must be very lonely at an emotional and personal level.

  124. jmusto says:

    Idk if Tim saw any of my comments but I’ve been asking and waiting on this one for a while.

  125. DarthWho says:

    “I’m not the expert, we should defer to the experts”

    I am sorry but anyone saying this after 2020 has lost their mind. We deferred everything to “the experts” and they blew the country up. The problem with this is who picks the experts?
    If you strictly leave decisions like this to the experts then every pro abortion expert will only focus on expanding what they deem to be the right course of action just like certain “medical experts” were more than happy to destroy lives and the economy to do what they felt was more important “stopping the spread”

    Take a fucking stance dude. The country is in this state because instead of taking a stance people just kept saying well they are the expert.

  126. Tdidriver@hotmail.com says:

    So why not just defer all our decisions to the doctors? Should we let Dr. Fauci make all the decisions, or maybe Dr. Levine? Or how about Dr. Warnock, and Dr. Biden? They are the experts. 🤷🏼‍♂️

  127. Janart48 says:

    My cousins was late in her wanted pregnancy when the doctors found babies brain had stopped growing early in the pregnancy, it was very devastating for the family, they said it would be a painful death for the baby if she was to give birth, the put baby to sleep in the most humane way posable the family were given time with the baby to grieve, they had a funeral and baby was named, she had a beautiful face but had a flat skull. Life can be very sad and brutal.

  128. anythingelseplz says:

    They were both poor arguments, which is why the point ended up being moot, so I’m gonna have to give this one to Tim because he can recognize that. But yeah, the questions are “is it life?” and “is it conscious”. Of course its life, life started ~4 billion years ago and has been a continuous unbroken chain ever since, and yes that little cluster of cells is apart of that. Now the interesting part, is it conscious? That is a very deep and difficult question to answer, and there are few who are worthy of it but I would like to try. I would argue that it was conscious before it was even alive. Crazy right? Hear me out, Assuming that, and I have reasons to believe this to be true, consciousness is a higher function of the cosmos, you can expect its mechanisms of action to exist in the meta-reality. If the meta-reality is timeless then it has been since before the inception of the universe, then also is the force that propels consciousness forward timeless. Ergo, all the possibilities of your life (including abortion) are laid out in a space without time and must exist as a prerequisite to the unfolding events of universe using the biology as a filter for the information. So is it conscious? Almost certainly, consciousness is what creates perceivable reality after all. A better question might be to what degree is this little cluster of cells conscious, but that is a question for another time.

    • FirstThessalonian says:

      Interesting take, i like it.

      Every conception is miraculous, as the meta-reality crosses the barrier into physical reality, as a tiny embryo, an imprint in space time. The current state of abortions ignores this fact, and is a travesty unspoken of the history of humanity.

  129. Fishbiskit says:

    Right off the bat ( see what I did there 😉 ), Ian’s definition of human life is the easiest to “debunk.”
    If it isn’t a human until it’s brain is developed, then it should be fine to execute anyone under the age of 25-ish as the human brain is still developing until then.

    But hey, congrats to Seamus for keeping a cool head during a heated debate he is very emotionally attached to. We seriously need more of that.

    Both Tim & Seamus are correct though. We do need to get back to shared base values but trying to do it all at once isn’t going to do anything but ensure vicious conflict at a time when we cannot afford it.

    There are three easy rebuttals to Seamus. The first, is that there are situations where the continuation of pregnancy can seriously and permanently affect the mother’s health or kill the mother and fetus both. One being ectopic pregnancies, which is when a fetus gets stuck in the Fallopian tube & if it is not removed both will die. There are others and I urge people to do research and get educated before making absolute decisions.

    Second, is that most of the technology that gives Drs the ability to always preserve the child are fairly new & did not exist when abortion became legal. Advancements in medicine are happening all the time but we are not at a place where the standards Seamus wants are possible for all people, everywhere.

    Third is our standards for self defense. The left like to argue that we are not “responsible” enough to guarantee that using a firearm to defend ourselves or property is the only way. “Well you could have tried harder to jump out your 3rd story window, I mean he hadn’t killed you yet!”

    The standard for lethal force is usually a reasonable belief that your or another are at risk of serious bodily injury or death. That standard applies to women as well. That is why education & information exchange are so critical and why we need to get away from the idea that “civilized” means avoiding all consequences, never having to grow up and become responsible for our own lives.

    Also the entire concept of having to be an expert before you can have an opinion is immature. Several major medical & technological advances have been made by people who were not experts in the field they made the advance in.

    From my life experiences, moral absolutism is not possible for humans. We are not God and no being on this earth will ever know all of the information needed for any absolutes.

  130. Tvang says:

    Tim had always said that the left are the ones proposing changes, while the right only slows down the left. Well I hope he understand how the Republicans feel now.

  131. StMyles2 says:

    Time to mandatory sterilization of women that want to push abortions

  132. Aarin81 says:

    Tim get off the fence your vagina can’t take anymore splinters

  133. Drewncharlie says:

    Tim: hey andy, antifa owns the streets your just stupid to even go out there

    Also tim: cnn just sits in their castle and relies on real journalists! They lie to you. The people on the ground tell the real truth.

    1. We are not all black pilled
    2. Anyone that goes out and documents antifa is better than you. Tim. They are you when you were brave. When you had balls. When you werent wealthy.
    3. Peterson isnt a tribalist. You are not above the culture war. You think with your huge black pill and your fuckin money, you are above the battle. I remember when you were trying to help things get better with your words rather than being happy describing how hopeless everything is. Grow up. Your important for all of us. Quit being a self important bitch. And dont get mad at the comments about it.

    Take a break if you have to. You are mad that no one will unite the third party. So am i. If you take the black pill that gives them the win. When i think you know the war has just begun.

  134. Cristiano says:

    Great convo, especially after the ‘meh’ yt stream. GG, Lydia Glad to see you jump in there a bit. Looking into this “Nathanson” fella now, Seamus (not that you’ll see this).

  135. MTSpiritSage says:

    Love ya Ian, but murder is the taking of life, no matter what form. Your argument is illogical from that understanding, be it a bug or fetus or any other example of a life form. Just because you dont recognize it as a “human”, doesnt mean is isnt alive.

    Since this is an expected topic with Seamus, and its most likely to have other iterations in the future i suggest expanding past just the age old debate of abortion and getting into the many layers of why they happen in the first place and how it came about as an accepted option. How does the sexual liberalization movement, death of religion/spirituality, lack of strong family units and fathers in particular, personal responsibility, ect play into what this abortion movement has come to be. Lets dissect the problem and learn from it, not get caught up in the endless circles of old debates and polarization that doesnt inform and allow us to move foreward.

  136. Sc0rp10N says:

    Seamus killed you on this one tim.

  137. Pookyrn78 says:

    Miscarriage is called a spontaneous abortion… all medical necessary or natural expulsions of a fetus are referred to as an abortion. They lie, medical abortion was always a practice. If a fetus will not be viable or if a woman has cancer and needs chemo, etc abortion is legal and abortion laws would not change this. The “abortion ” they discuss is specific to one that does not have necessity. Pre eclampsia and ecclampsia are not a reason, you deliver the baby. If the baby doesn’t survive, at least it had a chance. Taking the time to perform an abortion would kill the mother that late in a pregnancy.

  138. Syke_211 says:

    Tim shut the fuck up and let people finish their thoughts and sentences and you would have actually understood his argument. You never let him explain his position you cut him off. IF THE MOTHER HAS A SITUATION AND THE BABY MIGHT DIE, DO THE PROCEDURE THAT IS NEEDED. AND IF THE FETUS BABY HUMAN DIES THEN YOU HAVE DONE EVERHTHING YOU CAN AND THE BABY STILL DIED WITHOUT THEM ABORTING IT. NATURALLY. Tim knew his argument was invalid to his and refused to listen. People who act like this are pathetic, if I wanted to watch “The View”, I would turn on the TV. I consume this type of content to avoid people like this being bullies to guests. Just like he is to Ian, and never realizes or apologizes, when he just hears him wrong. Stupid as fuck. He refused to listen, period.

  139. johnlocke says:

    Tim is very immature and insecure. His ego is so fragile, he has lately shown that he is only interested in proving he is right. The difference between confidence and cockiness is a fine line. Cockiness is thinking you are right all the time, and the best at everything (this is Tim). Confidence is admitting your wrong, and knowing what you are right at and what you are wrong with.

  140. DogFacePonySold1er says:

    Tim: does a baby have it’s own DNA? Ian: most babies do, LOLOL. Yup most babies have their own DNA, but since of them, not so much, lol.

    • Tim_Pool says:

      Please check ur comment
      because i think I’m interested in what u
      have to say,
      but I do not know,
      since ur comment doesn’t make sense.

  141. inadash says:

    Tim if you’d like to learn, have Dave Smith back on and have him explain it to you. Its pretty simple from a liberty perspective. Abortion takes a life.. life from biology means something is growing, metabolizing, or reproducing. An embryo is clearly growing, thus is alive, and ending it is ending life … a human life. GL on your moral journey.

  142. OliveJuicer says:

    There isn’t much I love more than passionate, knowledgeable, friendly debate!!

  143. Fishbiskit says:

    The more reality, knowledge, truth, & self accountability the total population has, the less likely it is that atrocities of any sort happen.
    We have a lethal shortage of actual adults in this nation & it is ruining us.

  144. Abstract says:

    The movie idea was Shit! Spitball on your own time. Do what you want with your biz. But I come here for real talk.

  145. Whatnofish says:

    my wife had a tumour on the ovary that was the size of a small large orange.. we had to wait until the foetus got to 16 weeks before they could operate.. they took the womb out, lay it to one side and removed the growth now the size of a soccer/football ball.. the womb was replaced and the pregnancy went full term and my daughter is now 20yr old.. the left would of just say Abort..

    • DogFacePonySold1er says:

      Damn man, I bet that was fucking nerve wracking. I have been present for 2 of my babies births, and nothing like that happened, that’s crazy. Hey though, a 20 year old bouncing baby girl! That’s amazing. My oldest is 23 and I love her so much.

  146. Dn1984 says:

    You did not win that argument. The mother dying example pull the baby out in one piece or six what’s the difference you still have to pull it out is the point he was trying to make

  147. tefulkerso says:

    That was honestly hard to watch. Tim kept interrupting and trying to win the argument by discrediting Seamus due to his lack of expertise but at the same time having none of his own. Seamus was coming from a moral argument and Tim kept trying to come up with a scenario to break his resolve. Thats pretty low Tim, even for you.

    • Pookyrn78 says:

      There are very few conditions where medical abortions are necessary. Anencephaly is an example. The baby can not live period. Certain “abortions” are medical and have ALWAYS been legal EVERYWHERE regardless of optional abortions. All others the way you save the mother us to deliver. The time to abort will likely result in the mothers death. A c-section is quicker and gives the child a chance of survival. 21 weeks + is dangerous when the mother is already suffering a medical emergency. I do have a medical degree

      • DogFacePonySold1er says:

        Yeah you’re obviously a 43 year old nurse named pooky, lol.

        I agreed with both of them personally. Mostly with Seamus but also I agree with Tim in that the government shouldn’t be making any of this shit legal or illegal.

        This is the reason we don’t have msc stem cell therapy here, cause the fucking government decided it was illegal for all of us. It’s basically a heals all organs therapy using umbilical cord stem cells. It would transform or society overnight.

  148. Hitman8541 says:

    My sister in law was pregnant. Both my brother and sister in law are devout catholics. They found out that their child had no kidneys. Their child would have died on birth. They had to make a hard choice. There is a big difference between them and they people who use abortion for birth control.

    • Tim_Pool says:

      Was the mother’s life in danger?!!
      You didn’t mention any threat to the mother.
      So why would a Practicing Catholic
      get an abortion ?!

  149. andrei says:

    On the rape argument I disagree. Soldiers used to / still rape women where they invade and this can absolutely fuck up someone’s life. Do you think that baby will be wanted, loved and have a normal life? You end up with two lives that are messed up, God knows what a person with a fucked up childhood will end up doing.
    You get raped and the morning after pill fails, you get aborted ASAP.
    It’s still not okay, but it’s the lesser evil.

    • jacobmeacham says:

      Bro you’re tripping just put the baby up for adoption lol. In most third world countries where soldiers are fighting abortion is illegal anyway.

    • Murryfairy says:

      For everyone making the argument that women who become pregnant out of rape should be able to have an abortion:
      Rape is violence that causes lasting trauma
      Abortion is violence that causes lasting trauma. Two wrongs don’t make a right. The abortion doesn’t fix rape, nothing does. The only thing that can make it an easier burden to bear is support and therapy. I say this as someone who suffered sexual abuse myself. Not saying that my experience can speak for everyone who has suffered sexual abuse, but having a baby as a result of it is not a awful and terrible thing. Many women have found that the love for their child helped heal the psychological wounds and trauma they faced after being raped. Not saying that women have to keep the baby if they don’t want to, that would be bad also; but like the instance where the woman had the baby and then had everything dredged up again after years, it sounds to me like she never got the psychological help that she needed to heal from it. It’s not the fault of her child that she still had open wounds on the issue.

  150. Kleon333 says:

    Not only did Tim interrupt here more than I’ve seen in any members-only episode. But he even said “You’re interrupting me” to Shamus lol

  151. RuthlessAdmin says:

    Neither side acknowledges the quality of life the child might have. I think there are ethical reasons to abort. My life sucks. I didn’t choose to be here. I am trying to figure it out, but overall my experience has been shit and my desire to continue is running out.

  152. Jomar55 says:

    Get him Tim! I agree, I think killing babies is wrong and shouldn’t happen. However, yes there are cases where both lives are in the balance and the mother is incapacitated they have to make a choice. There are also cases where yes like cancer found in a pregnant women the woman has has the choice to terminate and get treatment or attempt to go to term and risk death.

  153. Hitman8541 says:

    Most of the time I agree with you Tim. But you employ a tactic that alot of police use when interrogating people. You interrupt the subject constantly with numerous questions at once to put them off balance. It’s not right and it’s not ethical or productive to obtain the truth. BTW I have a LEO background.

  154. ssdarling says:

    You are so backwards on this, Tim. He was not losing the argument.

  155. MigL says:

    My aunt almost died during pregnancy due to her lungs constantly filling with water. They took the baby out at 7 months and he is now 4yrs old, there are ways to save the child but pro-abortionist would say she NEEDED an abortion. They’re just selfish, all the want to do is play hide the sausage with no repercussions.

  156. Creose says:

    Have friends who laughed at each other joking about empowering women and referencing the abortion girl clip. When they noticed the distaste in my expression their subject turned to their ability to tell the size of a mans penis within a few minutes… never said a word to them but I no longer consider them friends.

  157. GunsTheMonkey says:

    I love the fact there was an honest fair disagreement in our kind of group over the Andy Ngo thing.

    • James_Dorpinghaus says:

      There was for the most part. I did see some people raging and saying their dropping him as a subscription. I don’t always agree with Tim on everything. But I respect his right to have an opinion too. I’m not gonna lie, that comment about Andy Ngo kinda pissed me off but then I went back and listened to Tim.

  158. keebord says:

    Oh no! The Russians got Tim’s video down!

  159. Solo19 says:

    Tim’s Fauci needs to call Crowder’s show to explain himself

  160. Charli says:

    Maybe fauci is doing the encoding and it can’t decide to do from minute to minute🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️🤷

  161. MorganElyse says:

    LES GOOOO

  162. benmac1089 says:

    First? (as the video encodes)

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